Ecademy - the ten year old business social network
February 8 Mike Butcher
[Note: please also see updates below] I first wrote about Ecademy for The Guardian newspaper six years ago. At the time it was shaping up to be an early social network aimed at freelance business people. Yesterday Ecademy celebrated 10 years in existence. Yes, it doesn’t look very Web 2.0. Yes, it’s doesn’t have a shiny logo with a reflection. Yes, it’s still built on Drupal, not on Ruby on Rails (the Web 2.0 platform of choice apparently). But to its members it clearly works, and that’s a good achievement.
So what have they achieved? I asked co-founder Thomas Power (who is one of four staff with wife Penny, Glenn Watkins and CTO Julian Bond) to put Ecademy into numbers for me, and this is what he came up with. Right now they claim 340,000 uniques each month, and in 10 years it’s cost £1.3m to get to this point [Update: See note below where they now say it's 190K registered, 7.5k paying]. The whole database is 1.9 million but they only count those who use the system each month using Google Analytics and Quantcast which is tagged to each page. The bulk of their traffic is from the UK but the second most visiting group is from the US.
Power - who made it something of a calling to be incredibly networked long before Robert Scoble appeared with 5,000 Facebook friends - says: “We are aiming for 10 million people worldwide or 10% of those 100m people who work from home, freelancers or are mobile no location and travelling workers.” Although it is free to be a basic member, the focus is on “BlackStar premium membership” which costs $100 a month. By way of contrast the most expensive premium version of LinkedIn - which recently launched a European office here - costs $200 a month (but then they have a million members in the UK). Ecademy wants to roll out the BlackStar idea as a licensed business model to people in 1,000 cities worldwide by 2020, thus sharing 30% of revenue with local “BlackStar City Leaders”.
Indeed, Power says that “By 2020 we would ideally like to have earned a Royal Charter from the Privvy Council and become The Chartered Institute of Networking creating a profession and The Chartered Networker.” The idea is to achieve “professional recognition for Networking”. That’s a nice idea, but I daresay a lot of people in business already ‘recognise’ networking as useful.
I have to say, not a lot of Ecademy’s pitch has made sense to me for a long time, until I realised recently that in a funny sort of way Ecademy is actually a bit like Badoo, the consumer social network where members pay $1 a time via mobile to vote themselves higher in the community. This is not a million miles away from the whole Blackstar schtick, albeit that being a “Blackstar ” is probably going to cost you a lot more (unless you are a Badoo texting addict of course).
The philosophy of monetising the users in this way probably looks alien to a lot of social networks today, which tend to be obsessed with scaling to a big size first before kicking in revenues. But you must remember that Ecademy created its business model in the last economic downturn, a time when monetising first made more sense.
I’m sure plenty of people get quite a lot of value out of their free LinkedIn and Facebook accounts for business networking. And it’s interesting that a bigger outfit like BT last year launched a similar-ish ’social networking yellow pages’ site for small businesses called BT Tradespace. But if Ecademy’s community didn’t ike what it did for them they would have left by now, and apparently they haven’t, so it looks like Ecademy will be around for another 10 years.
UPDATE: In response to some commenters’ criticisms of Ecademy, following this post, a large number of Ecademy members piled in on the comments to defend the network. That’s great and all part of a vigorous and healthy debate.
But what it also demonstrates is that - in my opinion - Ecademy is, and always will be (assuming it doesn’t change its model), a “lifestyle business” for Thomas Power and his colleagues. And before more Ecademy members wade in on me, I’m not saying that’s a bad thing! The Ecademy founders have worked very hard to make the site work, of course they have. But what that means is that Ecademy is unlikely become a social network as big as LinkedIn or Xing (which run into millions of users) because it requires a pretty heavy subscription level to get real value (thus putting off a lot of the market), plus - and crucially - it revolves around the personalities and involvement of its founders. With all the best intentions in the world, those founders cannot be omnipresent on the network, unlike self-running social networks which do not require the founders to nurture the network (like a Xing or LinkedIn). That means the site will never scale to, say 100 million users, as a socnet like Twitter or MySpace or Facebook or LinkedIn would. I’m not saying that’s “bad”, I’m just saying that makes it a different type of animal compared to typical Web 2.0 companies which are, in the main, built to scale to that kind of size.
UPDATE II: Ecademy has now contacted me again to clarify their numbers. The 340,000 figure refers to Unique Visitors as reported by Google Analytics. They say members with *confirmed email addresses* currently stands at 190,000. Paying subscribers are at around the 7,500 mark. In other words they have managed to convert less than 4% of their audience to paid membership. Obviously most of those paying members would likely be the £11.75-a-month “Power Networkers”, with a smaller percentage forming the “BlackStars” at the ‘healthy’ rate of £100 a month. So if, say, 90% of paying members paid £11.75 a month and 10% paid £100, that makes £79,312.50 plus £75,000, or £154,312.50 in revenues from paid subscriptions a month. That doesn’t include advertising revenues on the site. As far as I know there are four directors of Ecademy and no other employees. Not a bad lifestyle business.
Comments
February 9th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Thank you Mike nice piece.
Linkedin’s most expensive offering is $200 per month.
https://www.linkedin.com/secure/purchase?displayProducts=&_ra=sub&_pt=sub
February 9th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I’ve been a member of Ecademy in the past, and would say that it is much more focused on the one-man-band NLP practitioner-types, than the likes of LinkedIn, which I would class as being more useful for corporate business.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
I’d love to big up the Brits, but in my work and travels people rarely mention Ecademy (in training I have an exercise for the group to list all of the social networks they can think of - I’d say Ecademy comes up 30% of the time, and the list usually includes 30+ networks). I’m sure FriendsReunited is also still talking a good talk, and slowly decaying through it’s half-life. The reality is that these are irrelevant to most, and unless they are self-sustaining through accidental and ad-hoc traffic, or reposition to become hugely valuable to a niche, they will eventually be consigned to the elephant’s graveyard.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
340,000 active members a month?
Given that account numbers (i.e. the number of people who have ever signed up for an account) are currently around the 250,000 mark then that’s quite a feat.
I suspect that they mean 340,000 unique visitors (or logged ip addresses) a month, which in itself is fairly impressive, but it’s not the same as having 340,000 active members. One could argue that Ecademy’s constant need to inflate its active membership numbers shows that its just not ready to play with the big boys.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
It is hard to see where the figures come from to support the ecademy membership claims and as there are no reputable third party audited figures they probably need to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Drupal numbers members sequentially so when the Ecademy quotes figures like “340,000 active visiting members each month” one would expect the uid numbers in their site to be substantial. However as around ‘id=249000′ and above the site reports ‘member not found’ and this would seem to limit the real membership numbers to within that figure. Believing the quoted number is even harder if you use the same technique to look a members in the numbers between 20 and 100,000 which are very sparse with a hit for a member every few hundred numbers at best. This then brings me onto the “The whole database is 1.9 million but they only count those who use the system each month” quote. Where does that figure come from? If the current id no of 250,000 is actually a genuine number and a reflection of Ecademy membership i cannot see how this is extrapolated to 1.9 million.
The conclusions of people who are not part of the management team is that the membership is probably in the 100,000 range with an active base of 10,000 to 15,000 members. However the bulk of theses members and active members accounts are recent and over a year to 18 months they will fade out. In other words the Ecademy seems to rely on a steady influx of new members but has difficulty retaining them over the long term.
Considering the 10 year life-span and the relative ease with which other sites in the same social space have racked membership numbers up into the millions and raised substantial VC funding one gets the distinct feeling that this is an inner M25 lifestyle business for the owners and that is not really going anywhere. Even the BlackStar membership is rooted in the self styled ‘Guru’ status of Thomas Power and his yellow pages like personal connections which could be difficult to export to other countries and monetise in a meaningful way.
Maybe an Ecademy spokesperson would like to comment more deeply on the membership figures and maybe provide some harder evidence backed up with real verifiable data.
February 9th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
I was a member of Ecademy but got fed up with the Law of Attraction rubbish. Apparently people can state, for instance, that the Jews brought the Holocaust upon themselves, or that cancer sufferers attracted the disease to themselves and still remain as members of Ecademy. But don’t mention Roger Hamilton, the well known scam artist, you will be thrown out immediately.
I agree with John Howitt, people join, stay a year or so, find it is of no real value and leave (or get barred).
February 9th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Thomas Power lying about his membership statistic? No surely not
February 9th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
I was on Ecademy for like a few months in 2006. I was inundated with the Spam, people introducing themselves/business to me. I really had enough !
I know there are several Ecademy offline clubs with people carrying their online conversation face to face. I’m sure it makes sense for freelance business people, as it is a nice way to meet other freelancers and startups.
Although I really feel Ecademy can do with an upgrade, it would certainly help. I think if the usability of the site could be improved and it could be an excellent resource for business people.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Wasn’t it up for sale not so long ago?
Although Alexa isn’t a reliable source of information ecademy’s graph makes interesting viewing having been on the decline for some time, I must check at HitWise.
The whole thing has some sort of 1980’s MLM feel about it, I mean how can you take calling members ‘blackstars’ seriously?
All in all I don’t think ecademy has come even close to achieving what it could, it’s stuck with handshakes and business cards while everyone else moved onto widgets and microformats.
The opportunity they were presented was huge and there for the taking, but they’ve been left behind by LinkedIn, Xing, Facebook, well in fact just about all the relative newcomers to the UK.
The real problem however could be with the brand, it’s just not easy to love.
It needs to drop the cheap suit and the ego and either get itself a hand knitted sweater (facebook) so people can feel like they can give it a hug or get itself down to Savile Row and and join LinkedIn around the board table.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
The value is in the network, not the widgets.
Ecademy changed my life.
Blackstar has huge value, but it’s a leap of faith to take.
I get Facebook spam almost everyday. Don’t you?
Cheers
Neil
February 10th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Having been a Power Networker on Ecademy for just under a year I recently upgraded to Black Star. The PN membership alone has brought me contacts and business that the likes of Linkedin, Xing, and the social site Facebook could never have done so upgrading to BlackStar made sense. The membership fee has already been paid tenfold for what I have done for my business on Ecademy.
For those who have quit and say it did not work for them, I would say the opposite. You did not work for it. IT is just a platform, how you use IT is the key.
Fantastic place with a fantastic community with a fantastic package and a fantastic range of tools to promote your business.
What else can I say? Fantastic!
Matt
February 10th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
I’ve been a member since early 2004. Because I had time on my hands in those days, I spend a lot of it exploring this website. Ecademy is a perfect solution for people like me, who are too shy to enter a meeting and make conversation. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still necessary to go to meetings, but it’s easier if you get to know people online first. It breaks the ice.
In Belgium we build up an excellent offline group of clubs and meetings.
We have the reputation of being the “most social” business network around.
We see a lot of other networks struggling because they are/were too focused on the “hard” transactions. On Ecademy it seems natural to build relations first, never focus on the business … and hey … after a few months the business starts from itself. I didn’t believe it at first, but experienced it myself.
About other networks … sure some networks have 10x the numbers of Ecademy … but Ecademy has 10x the activity level of those networks.
I’m happy to say that for Belgium we have about 4K members of which +- 80 appear at our national meeting every month. Next to this we have +- 30 people showing up on each regional meeting, all around the country.
I know Ecademy changed a lot for me and for many others I know.
There nothing strange or bizarre about Ecademy, it’s just about people !
February 10th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
I have read the above comments with great interest as all have more than a grain of truth but that is all they have.
Big is not beautiful but Ecademy is. In my fifth year as a member I have watched it grow from the daily centre of attraction for a few thousand people to the same for many, many thousands. It is quirky, it is old-fashioned whilst being light years ahead in attractiveness to other networks. It attracts people who have a say from just about every walk of life and from countries all round the globe - not bad for a home-grown British site.
It has corners and niches for just about every self interest group you could imagine and is self-policed by its members.
A Business and social network, you can enjoy the social, do business world-wide (one of my colleagues from Cumbria recently supplied printer ink to Western Australia and I myself have written job-getting CVs twice for Californians).
The bottom line is that it is a family and like all families has its unsung heroes, black sheep, seniors and juniors, crises and problems, successes and brilliance.
Those who write Ecademy off may regret their stance, as the man said “reports of my death have been exaggerated”
Ed
February 10th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
In the small time that I have been in the corporate world (12 years) or so, I have entertained, socialised, and schmoozed but the best opportunities by far have come from my BlackStar membership - and I won’t be changing that in the near future.
The numbers for me are less important, the quality of the contacts are the key here.
Many thanks to Ecademy for offering me a more effective way to grow my business.
February 10th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Interesting post and comments. IMHO it’s very difficult to “work out” an animal like this from the outside, or without current experience of what it’s like to be a member. I have that, and I am very happy to share it …
I am new to Ecademy, and within two weeks of joining, signed up to BlackStar. It was a huge leap of faith for me, and in some respects was actually a stab in the dark.
So how did it go?
If you’ve got four minutes, for the full story, google my blog post: “BlackStar definitely not worth the money you pay for it”
For the record: I am a journalist, I’m part of a small internet TV channel with a large global team, and I haven’t been inundated with spam or consultants trying to sell to me.
If you’re short on time and haven’t read my blog, the short version is that, if widgets and 3D logos aren’t your driver and building your business is, Ecademy is an incredibly powerful tool. Highly recommended.
February 10th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Life is what you make it and so too is networking….
Networking is also not new, I have been face to face networking as I am sure we all have over many years. Ecademy is an online tool that facilitates effective networking, both social and business. Yet, just like offline networking not everybody gets on and I have seen my share of back biting and sniping.
I personally have been on ecademy for a number of years now and started out on the lowest level of membership. I found it very useful, as well as addictive, and over the period of the first year or so had not only met some great people, exchanged many ideas, but had also received some great input to my business. I also generated several thousands of pounds of business, yet that was not my main focus.
Generally people fail on ecademy, because they only focus on what they can get out of it… they then move on when they fail to engage with people in the right way…
I have come across a wide variety of people on ecademy over the years, a number of freelancers, consultants, as well as people working for large corporates.
I looked in to a number of different networking sites, but have found ecademy easy to use and good value for money.
Regards,
John
February 10th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
I joined Ecademy 6 months ago and Blackstar 3.
I have to say that the varaiety of people i met as been incredible, either online and offline.
From one man band full of ego and no money, to proper succesfull multi-million pounds businesses.
I think this reflects the phylosophy of the founder, the importance of random connection with a wide range of people.
We are over-estimating the power of social networks in business anyway. Nothing will replace a good product, a great team and a bit of luck.
No Ecademy, Facebook or LinkedIn.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
There are people who love Ecademy and those who don’t, and those who use it often and those who use it sparingly… or never. It’s like anything - it’s impossible to please everyone. I’m a member of various networking sites and I use 2 or 3 more often than others and learned that it’s best to know a few things before signing up: 1. what the culture and philosophy of the network are, 2. who the target audience is for the site, 3. what you want to get out of it, and 4. how much time you want to put into it. I think you do get what you put into it. I personally gained close professional relationships and business from Ecademy as well as great friendships. I recommend Ecademy to my colleagues who I believe will benefit from the connections I’ve gained from my trusted network.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Ecademy’s Potential is Growing as a Business Community because Ecademy Learns you to Learn
The inability to predict outliers implies the inability to predict the course of history, given the share of events in the dynamics of events.
We generally act as though we are able to predict historical events or as if we are able to change the course of history. There are so many things we can do if we focus on anti-knowledge, or what we do not know. Among many benefits, you can set yourself up to collect serendipitous opportunities by maximizing your exposure to them. In some domains, such as scientific discoveries and venture capital investments, there are disproportional payoffs from the unknown, since you have little to lose and plenty to gain from rare events, like the launch of Ecademy.
Contrary to social-science wisdom, almost no discoveries, no technologies of note, came from design and planning.
The strategy for the discovery and entrepreneurs is to rely less on top-down planning and focus on maximum tinkering and recognizing opportunities when they present themselves, like the business community of Ecademy.
Free markets work because they allow people to be lucky, thanks to aggressive trial and errors, not by giving rewards or incentives for skills.
Ecademy’s strategy is to tinker as much as possible and try to collect as many serendipitous opportunities as it can!
Another related human impediment comes from excessive focus on what we know: we tend to learn the precise, not the general! We do not spontaneously learn that we don’t learn what we don’t learn. The problem lies in the structure of our minds: we don’t learn rules, just facts, and only facts. Metarules, such as the rule that we have a tendency to not learn rules, we don’t seem to be good at getting. We scorn the abstract; we scorn it with passion!
Ecademy can help us learning to learn and already does it brilliantly!
I wish Ecademy all the best for the next ten years and lots of new serendipitous opportunities!
February 10th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Judging by the referer logs, inside Ecademy somewhere, someone has asked members to start filling up this blog post with supportive comments. In internet parlance it’s called ‘trolling’. It’s a shame really as I daresay some people genuinely do like Ecademy, but this wave of blatantly booster-ish comments about it simply make the site look less and less authentic and the criticisms of it more valid.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Interestingly I looked at the meeting attendee list yesterday for an All Day Ecademy event titled
“How can we change the Business Referral Club to work even better for us?”
that was held on the 2nd Feb 2005 - 3 years ago.
76 Ecademists attended, 13 are no longer members, 22 were BlackStars (very new ones). So 63 are still here and most are very active. 11 of them have bought services from me, referred work (which I did) to me or sub-contracted to me. 11 have also give me great business advice for free. That seems like a good business network.
This year a group of us are organising two similar Open Space events in April with the theme
“How can we work better together
so that we all get more from Ecademy?”
I am sure that will help the attendees to understand what the value of their fellow members and this place called Ecademy is.
There is a great core of people here in Ecademy. If you get involved things happen.
Regards, Andrew
February 10th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
I’ve been a member of Ecademy for nearly 5 years. I’m also a member of LinkedIn, Xing, Facebook, Plaxo … but Ecademy is the only one I use regularly and the only one I’ve found to be of much value.
Ecademy’s strength (in my opinion) is its global membership from Australia to Zimbabwe and the myriad clubs (interest groups) on every concievale topic. It is still UK-centric but that is slowly changing. To have survived for 10 years it must have done something right.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Although Ecademy is 10 years old it is still early days for this type of online business networking.
It takes a different type of thinking - my approach has changed significantly since I joined 5 years ago. In those days we got personal contact to Thomas Power. The challenge is for Ecademy to educate new members quickly on how to get it to work. Linked in is great and its not a case of one or the other but both.
I had to stop thinking about it as a place where I would find customers and see it as a place to develop relationships with people who know my ideal customer. There may be predominantly smaller businesses but there are also many doing business with larger businesses and even some who are still working in larger businesses.
I believe that the perceived wisdom about networking will change in the years to come and people in larger companies will see the benefit of Ecademy. Thomas Power is normally right although his thinking is ahead of its time an normally hard to fathom out at first.
Best wishes
Richard
February 10th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
I was a bit troubled by Mike Butcher’s article. The final paragraph seemed like a non sequitur, and the last sentence of the penultimate paragraph — “But you must remember that Ecademy created its business model in the last economic downturn, a time when monetising first made more sense.” — made no sense to me at all.
What all this meant to me was that the article was more about the author than about ecademy or networking. It was a parade of ‘attitude’, as confirmed by his comment immediately above this.
I am a Black Star, but not an apologist for ecademy. The real issue seems to be whether such membership offers value, and what that value is. To date I have gained no business through ecademy, but I have had some value.
Ecademy (and Black Star in particular) has provided a forum for the exchange of ideas, and a reflection of the effectiveness or otherwise of my own marketing activities. It has also enabled me to meet a handful of worthwhile people whose insight and advice have been helpful.
Self-employed people can become very isolated, and it is essential (not just useful) to engage with others and develop new relationships. Those whom I like and trust will be added to my little black book and introduced, as appropriate, when I choose to say, “I know a man who can.”
I don’t sell to ecademists (as they are not my market) and generally they don’t sell to me either. I know what I want from Black Star, and I manage my membership accordingly.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
And still they come.
This is what I meant before about needing to inflate the numbers. It’s a constant search for validation like a 7 year old coming home from school with a new picture hoping that mommy tells him how proud she is and puts it on the fridge door.
Tell me you love me, please tell me you love me… please?
February 10th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
People seem to be obsessed with numbers. IMHO social networks are not as much about quantity as about quality of engagement: you can only connect with so many people in a meaningful or useful way. That’s why I have found Ecademy Blackstar fruitful: I have a chance of really getting to know a few hundred people.
By the same token a mix of physical meetings and online connections seems to me a stronger model than a straight web-based database, which is what LinkedIn and Xing still effectively are. I am on both those networks and they’re great for finding employees or prospective clients - not so great for the real heart of networking, which in my view is based on connecting without wanting something; giving freely and then receiving abundantly; putting your whole self out there, not just your CV; helping others without an agenda and finding yourself helped whence you least expected it.
Ecademy’s high level of activity, the passions it excites (pro and con), its hugely lively groups and its ubiquitous face to face meetings all make it very good for this real networking in my experience.
There are many social networks to choose from now, so I don’t see the point of bitching when they style of one doesn’t suit. Just leave it and join another. For me, Ecademy has forged some relationships that have been key to my business’s success, for which I will always be grateful. I use LinkedIn and Xing to find people, Ecademy to forge business relationships and Facebook for my friends and fun. Works for me.
Julian
February 10th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
PS …and incidentally Mike I came here to read the debate and felt moved to record my views as they are, partly because we’ve met so I feel on familiar ground and partly because of the carping and sniping (viz some of the earlier posts above). I hope I’ve given a balanced view, not an advertisement. There’s skill in using any of these networks optimally - for example LinkedIn questions can be hugely powerful as long as you don’t spam people; Facebook groups can spread like wildfire but need to be maintained. As with anything online if you stick your head above the parapet somebody out there will take a shot at it! The biggest problem is time: I could probably spend four hours a day just expanding networks endlessly, but that’s a bit like buying 50 CDs a day just to own them. More rewarding to limit yourslef to one a day and really listen.
Julian
February 10th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Andrew
“One could argue that Ecademy’s constant need to inflate its active membership numbers shows that its just not ready to play with the big boys.”
Show me a website that doesn’t? I have no idea where Ecademy get their figures from being that I do not work for them, but I do know that virtually every web based company tries to inflate their numbers in some way.
From the search engines inflating the number of indexed webpages and how many searches are done per day through to run of the mill websites trying to attract new business by showing off their inflated stats package.
So, are Google and Yahoo trying to compete with the big boys? I think not, they are the big boys.. Yet their numbers and how they got to them are constantly being debated.
It’s not a search for validation, Ecademy is proud of its community and that’s all. So a few Ecademy members posted here. To be expected really. An article is posted on the Ecademy business networking community so some Ecademy community members comment. Wow, big shocks. I’m quite amazed really
Matt
oh, Andrew. As requested, I Love You
February 10th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
“Mike Butcher is a journalist and a new media expert.”
What breathtaking arrogance you have in the era of Web 2.0 to suggest that people are writing reviews because they have been told to.
BlackStar has 500 members paying a $100 a month or they have already paid in advance for life. In addition it had a large and growing number of people who pay £10 a month because they think it is worth it!
Ask the failing Yahoos and other mega membership free sites what they would give for financial independence and a business model like Ecademy’s.
Tell us about your Web 2.0 credentials Mike.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
@Julian Treasure - thanks, that’s the kind of more balanced comment that puts things more in context.
@Matthew Anderson - I wonder if you could post the URL of the article on Ecademy you refer to which links to this post because I’m damned if I can find it on Ecad’s site!
February 10th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Wow, Interesting. But the funny thing is that most people measure Ecademy using American style business model and can not see the true value of Ecademy. I am BlackStar number 11 here in California Bay Area. I tried many social networking sites and I see one of the true values in Ecademy that no other social sites have. That is the intimacy relationship among BlackStar members. We argue with each others, we discuss everything, like we are brothers and sisters within a family. I can tell you lots inside stories to prove this to you. We grow together and become wiser, we partner with each others. The main difference is that BlackStar is a life long commitment to this kind of relationship. I understand that the numbers of members is the way to judge a social networking site under American style of business models. But, to me personally, those soft relationship within BlackStars just can not be put into a dollar amount. The relationship I have with Thomas and Penny and my fellow BlackStars is one of most valuable things in my life. I failed as Ecademy USA Regional club leader and also failed to grow San Francisco Regional Club for last a couple years. But, Thomas and Penny still came to my house last August with his family. I know in my heart that I will not be judged by my failure and I am still part of the family. This is the true Ecademy value to me which I can not find it anywhere else on LinkedIn or facebook. Congratulations to Ecademy and we want to keep the spirits alive for a long long time. What spirit you may ask? That is the spirit of a FAMILY when Penny and Thomas open their house ten years ago.
February 10th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Mike
My bad.. I was referring to here and not there.
Matt
February 10th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Forget the whiners, ecademy is just like everything else in life, what you get out of it is reflected by what you put into it.
The support that ecademy members give to each other is extraordinary. Are there some bad apples? Sure, it’s just like life, there are always some greedy people who try to take advantage of others but ultimately they get what they deserve.
Thomas and Penny Power do an amazing job of being the glue that keeps the community together, I don’t see the naysayers achieving anything special and so they try to bring down the people who do.
We’ll be here for the next ten years when ecademy will be a truly global brand.
February 10th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Good evening everyone,
well I have sat back, watched and read the various comments until this point when I cannot bite my tongue any longer. I have watched ecademy grow over the last 6 years and dabbled in and out before getting focused on my core business. Recently I rejoined knowing the value of the community and I emphasize ‘community’. I joined as a BlackStar without hesitation as I knew that I would get out what I put in. I was guided from day one by support members from ecademy to assist with finding my feet which was fantastic(where else do you get assistance like that). Then not even a full month into my membership my Wife lost a baby, I was in bits, couldn’t think straight just wanted to focus om helping my family…so did ecademy help me?
Absolutely, I sent an email to William(President of BlackStar Membership) which I haven’t even answered yet to thank him! I told him my situation to which he was so sympathetic, he immediately took my profile off line as not to be disturbed with ecademy contacts or mail etc. He then also suggested that I should take a break and come back in 2-3 months or so and my subscription would be suspended until then. He finally offered his own personal help to talk at anytime if I needed too.
Whatever ’social or business network green eyed monsters’ are lurking in the shadows waiting for ecademy to fail I feel sorry for you as it seems to me that perhaps you have missed the point. ecademy is ‘real’ it has ‘real people’ who do actually care about their fellow man everything else is a bonus.
Cheers, David
February 10th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
I joined BlackStar shortly after going freelance in 2006. I discussed the numbers with Thomas on various occasions before realising that they were irrelevant to me as a member. It’s the attitude of the typical BlackStar that is far more important to me.
Ecademy as a whole and the various Ecademy clubs, including BlackStar, have provided me with the sense of community that I previously enjoyed when working in large organisations. Neither Facebook (full of fun) nor LinkedIn (build your corporate connections) come close to replicating that sense of community.
Ecademy in general and the BlackStar club specifically inspired me to create the Tax Advice Network (www.TaxAdviceNetwork.co.uk) a new business that enables UK accountants to source independent tax advisers to resolve challenging tax issues and problems. The network is a marketing portal for the tax advisers and also provides them with a support community. Numerous Ecademy BlackStars supported me as I developed the concept and many of them were also been involved in bringing my plans to fruition.
I cannot imagine that I would be where I am today if Ecademy did not exist. Facebook and LinkedIn have their place but they lack the community side of things that is so crucial in online business networking.
Mark Lee
Founder Tax Advice Network.co.uk
February 11th, 2008 at 12:13 am
As the ‘most connected’ Ecademist in the USA, I can tell you that the experience is much different here than in the UK. BlackStars enjoy an implied trust and easy access through referrals whereas on LinkedIn you must ask a contact to jump through hoops just for an introduction. The two networks have completely different purposes, but for simple, straight forward networking, Ecademy provides something no other business/social network can.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:16 am
Are we a bunch of kids with a dozen plugins, widgets and other gizmo that doesn’t work or worst still if installed go “phishing” or are we here to build visibility, credibility and therefore profitability?
Ecademy does just that – use its system to build incredible visibility, be at the top of your game and you shall be profitable – VERY!
Corinne Morris
http://www.morrismusic.co.uk
February 11th, 2008 at 2:03 am
I am both a member of ecademy as well as an advertiser. I can vouch for Thomas Power and the team as being some of the most integral, pragmatic and visionary business people I have dealt with in the last 7 years of running my company on three continents.
As an advertiser I can say the response rate exceeded my expectations. As a member, I have made wonderful, useful connections. As a blogger I have had interesting debate, thoughtful responses (mostly) and valued discussion.
I find Bob’s comments about “the law of attraction” debate to be ridiculously out of context as is his comments on Roger Hamilton.
Anyone who has read the LOA thread knows that extreme examples were being used to discuss concepts about personal development/positive thinking ideas. Anyone who has looked into Roger Hamilton knows that he has been the victim of an anonymous blog campaign that coincidentally seems to have a lot in common with sentiments of an ex-employee who is in litigation with his company.
I have dealt with Roger Hamilton also and he is an inspiring entrepreneur who is fantastically straight up to deal with and runs a very good group of companies. He was also a recent guest at the Clinton Global Initiative, a place that you don’t get invited to lightly.
I think ecademy is one of the few UK technology companies that has been able to weather the various tech storms and deserves the support it gets. I hear a lot of people complaining that the UK isn’t producing enough tech companies and when one emerges we should be behind it proudly.
Thanks to the ecademy team, you have my continues support. Daniel
February 11th, 2008 at 2:26 am
“The bulk of their traffic is from the UK but the second most visiting group is from the US.”
The third most visiting group is from Germany - so trust the people who invented Porsche
Compare social networks - no big deal …
Visit Ecademy once a day - and enjoy it - because there are almost no restrictions in interaction, “self-marketing” and visibility.
Social Networks should be a way to achieve more in business.
Ecademy is more than a social network. Individuals collecting contacts can choose almost any other web 2.0 network - but Ecademy in fact is a strong, growing community, keeping you away from spam by higher membership-fees.
By the way -> many “real-life” events in the UK. So there is additional value in the “off-line” world.
Ten years! Great!
February 11th, 2008 at 3:48 am
Thought I’d add my views as an Ecademy Blackstar member from India. I’m also a premium member of Xing & LinkedIn (along with dabbling a bit on facebook & ryze).
Because of my location, I am rarely present at ANY offline events on the above networks. That means my ability to create REAL friendships (not just business relationships) is primarily through my online efforts on these networks.
I have given each network a similar amount of online time. However, I must say that the QUALITY of relationships I’ve developed, has somehow been on Ecademy. ‘Quality’ in this case indicates the level of advice, proactive help & comfort I get from people who I have never met face to face.
Whats also interesting is that among ALL the networks, Ecademy & co-founder Thomas Power tend to attract the most passionate opinions (both positive & negative) on sites like this & others.
Check the comments about ANY other social network on Tech crunch & I am sure they will be much more dispassionate. How many members of these other networks can boast a good relationship with the founder of the network?
Is it possible that people fight over Ecademy because they ‘Care’?
February 11th, 2008 at 4:21 am
As an individual with multiple business interests, I find Ecademy to be a unique platform. There is a concerted effort to reach out, improve, and respond to its members. It seems to have a culture which encourages F2F meetings as much as it encourages online communication.
February 11th, 2008 at 7:13 am
Ecademy works for those that “get it”, who understand the power of the platform and the multifarious benefits that it brings. It’s a journey yes, there is lots of “live research and development” and sometimes things don’t work but that’s business and that’s life.
When you look at all the current networks that exist and compare them to Ecademy for me in this space (consultants, owner/managers of SME’s) nothing compares. I’m 5 years in of course but I had to work at it hard at the beginning too. Good luck to the management team and keep on keeping on!
February 11th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Ultimately it is the members who make a great social network. The technology and the look and feel are becoming increasingly irrelevant.
I use Xing, LinkedIn, Ecademy, FastPitch and Facebook to engage with people and many more social platforms to promote my marketing seminars. Each network has its own distinct character and no one network is ‘better’ than the others. It’s your interaction with the other members that counts - or how well a network fulfills your objectives for joining.
Whatever Ecademy’s numbers, I get a lot of people visiting my profile and huge numbers joining my clubs each week. And I get many, many more people booking on my seminars from Ecademy than from any other network.
http://httv.biz/CalvertSeminar/
Philip Calvert
February 11th, 2008 at 8:11 am
I am an avid Ecademist. It is a network which works - has dynamism and serves its members. The founders are untiring in keeping a personal relationship with the members.
By comparison - Linked-in, Xing etc are cold and impersonal.
I recommend it - but I hope it never makes the ‘big league’. It would lose its personal touch.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:12 am
It always worries me when past members attempt to trash what they’ve left behind, especially when so many more still get great benefit from being there.
I’ve been a member and a Black Star for over two years and I’ve had a whole wealth of benefits, none less than finding all of my non-exec’ Directors and meeting people I would never dreamed of meeting otherwise.
In addition, I’ve had work (so the fee’s pretty academic) and loads of fun.
As far as I’m concerned, just let us get on with it and stop bothering us.
Any problems (and there are plenty, just like other membership clubs) are sorted out from within, very effectively.
Malcolm Tullett
February 11th, 2008 at 8:31 am
ecademy to me coming from Germany is like California before the Gold Rush.
Hardly people believe there’s gold.
Hardly people have the guts (Command of English language or chuzpe to make their rusty English work for them) to go there.
Many gold diggers digging the wrong hole.
Many people passing by and leaving this grumpy place.
Many people prefer Boston (LinkedIn) or New Orleans (Facebook) where everything seems easy and free.
ecademy isn’t superficial. If you use the tools right you get . . .
. . . Gold.
Once you sort the wheat from the chaff. ecademy sorts the wheat from the chaff.
Andreas Wiedow - BlackStar Foundation Member from Germany
February 11th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Mike, this happens every time anyone questions Blackstar or Ecad in general… the Blackstar members are promoted by Thomas to post ‘their’ thoughts.
It really does skew any meaningful debate.
I’m a member of Ecademy, have been for 2 years or so, not a Blackstar - just a standard paid member. I have met some great people on Ecad and had some business benefit… not a lot, but I have had some.
Ecad could of been something much more than it is now, but seems to be in serious decline - both in the number and quality of new members. The site does seem to be focused on the Blackstar membership now, with a big push towards getting everyone towards that level. My concern is that as the numbers of Blackstar members rise, it loses one of its main benefits - that of being a close-nit collection of business people helping each other.
Its unfortunate that the above people have jumped into this singing the praises of Ecademy without commenting on the true problem with the initial article. The membership figures are no where near the levels quoted by Thomas, and when the chairman (Thomas Power) claims that the number of connections is the most important thing then this is a very important factor.
The number of connections isn’t the most important thing. Its the quality of your connections that are important.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Despite Staying 60 miles north of aberdeen on a farm (dont have many meetings or 121s up here), I’ve built up nearly 3000 people in my network on Ecademy, but I had to make a helluva lot of mistakes in the early days (and upset a few people along the way) - That learning has now been documented in the original “HOW TO” Guide for Ecademy - “How to Make Money on Ecademy”.
That learning has been applied by other people now on Ecademy, and going by the 359 testimonials I’ve acquired - they appear to like and benefit from it.
The truth is - it’s down to the individual what you do with the site. Many people still don’t know what to do with it or on it. This is also evidenced by the 7000 views of my video on Ecademy which has been on Youtube for about 6 months now.
People are silently begging to be led, and the whole social marketing arena is new and somewhat scary for the over 35s. Hence the reason why I set up my own site to help entrepreneurs generate real progress and results
with their marketing online and offline.
Ecademy has some amazing functionality, and like it, love it or hate it, there are thousands of people fascinated with it, and spend many waking hours of their social calendar on it.
It has also acted as a conduit and faciliator in introducing me to some amazing people, one was a non UK entrepeneur who paid me £10,000 for a marketing solution, and whose business after 8 months has been valued at £1.1m.
Ecademy has been good for testing ideas, products, headlines, modes of communication, article topics, audio and video podcasts, but there are still some fundamental “flaws”, that need addressing.
Get hooked or obsessed with ecademy, then when you’re ready for some
real progress & results from your business marketing and networking, sign up for FREE at my new site. But don’t sign up if you’re going to create an empty profile or lurk and do nothing.
http://www.theresultsacademy.com
February 11th, 2008 at 8:49 am
I noticed this debate before I checked my RSS feeds only because Thomas Power posted a comment on Twitter that said: “amazed at the debate on Techcrunch about Ecademy” and a URL.
Similarly, Thomas has posted two links to the debate in Ecademy, but he does not say “come along and start filling up this blog post with supportive comments”. He says as follows:
==
Headline: Techcrunch Ecademy Debate
Body: Every point of view possible in a single blog.
http://uk.techcrunch.com/2008/02/08/ecademy-the-ten-year-old-business-social-network/
What do you think?
==
That’s about as brief and neutral a statement as you can get. I don’t think it’s at all accurate to call that trolling - it’s called cross-posting in my book.
The fact that people have added positive or negative comments is, dare I say it, because that’s their opinion.
But that’s just my opinion. Just to declare my allegiances: I am a BlackStar Member of Ecademy.
Regards, David
February 11th, 2008 at 9:13 am
My only experience of Ecademy is via the spam I get from Thomas Power on various Social Networks after accepting his connection requests.
I quickly unfriended him on any networks where I had accepted his Friend requests and resolved never to have anything to do with any of his businesses.
Ironically I came across this post when he tried to connect to my Twitter account this morning, I checked his Twitter account and saw the link to this article!
February 11th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Mike Butcher makes an interesting point above, that asking others to comment skews the ability of others to debate. Perhaps he is right, but perhaps there is another aspect to this particular case.
Ecademy is a networking site, and networking is about word of mouth. When people talk about the site or its members, other members hear about it. That’s just the nature of the way Ecademy works.
It’s true that the Chairman and co founder (Thomas Power) alerts members to conversations taking place about the site that he becomes aware of. He’s not the only one, by any means, it is after all a word of mouth environment he has created. What he doesn’t do is control the comments that people make, indeed, the reverse is true, detractors and critics can’t be excluded from word of mouth, it’s an all inclusive communications medium.
An alternative view to conclude is that the members DO like the site and what it provides, and far form stifling debate the impact here is to make it representative. it’s clear from the comments here that there is much to like and some areas that some don’t like. I think I’d expect that onj any site, the question (for me) is whether there is an ongoing change and development programme with direction and purpose, when you look back at Ecademy at the end of each of it’s 10 years there is claerly much change and development.
Compared to Mike’s comments this is just an alternative view of how to interpret what is here, there may be other equally valid ways to do that that haven’t been discussed yet as well.
On a separate point Ecademy contains a large body of knowledge and information in the blogs visible outside the site without an account. I think that explains why the membership numbers are lower than the unique visitors, people are using elements of Ecademy (and contacting members who provide that knowledge) without registering and logging on, through search engines and word of mouth.
For the sake of clarity and transparency readers should be aware that Ecademy engage me to provide services to them as Membership Manager and President of BlackStar Life Membership.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Ecademy works well for those that want regular engagement with others - e.g. SME owner/directors. It doesn’t work so well for those people that only want to use a network when they are looking for their next job - e.g, contractors on 6-12 month contracts and salaried staff. The constant stream of messages gives a sense of community to one group but a sense of spamming to the other.
Ecademy has had to adapt to economic pressures and new, VC-supported, competition, and it seems to have come up with a model that gives it steady, presumably profitable growth. However, it remains to be seen whether its customised Drupal platform can remain competitive functionally with the likes of Facebook and others.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:16 am
David Petherick - Thanks for setting me straight on that. So basically people are just piling in to add their comments? That’s good. I’m now going to update this post based on all this feedback.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:19 am
David… that post by Thomas was made this morning though….. Most of the above comments came yesterday. In the aim of openness, did Thomas send out a message to people asking them to comment on this thread yesterday?
February 11th, 2008 at 9:26 am
It’s not neutral when it is posted in a private club only available to people who have made a lifetime commitment to the site. These are folks who not only a personal financial investment in Ecademy but also a psychological need to convince others (and themselves) that they haven’t been duped into parting with their money.
For clarity, I am also a current member (not a Black Star) and I think Ecademy is a great website, it works for me and for my business. I have no complaints about the network itself. But I do find it slightly embarrassing when I’ve recommended it to people and then they come across things like this. On more than one occasion I have had to assure colleagues that the value is in the membership and not the management and that it is wise to separate the two.
It seems that most of the members who have commented above me have no issues about Thomas Power lying about significant aspects of the site, and that’s their prerogative, after all they’ve paid enough for it.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:51 am
As a relatively new member of Ecademy - I joined around last July - I have met some quite incredible people at several of the offline Clubs, so much so that I decided to take a leap of faith at the end of 2007 .. & become a member of the BlackSatr group.
I’m amazed at the amount of people who have contacted me offering their support & help with areas of marketing in which I’m still a novice - many of the tips have come for free, which I have naturally greatly appreciated.
I’ve also begun building rapport with people with whom I could never have made contact & although I haven’t yet completed very much in the way of sales either directly with other members or as a result of referrals by other members, I feel a strong sense that I will gain many, many benefits from my involvement with Ecademy.
I feel it’s like a lot of things in life - the more you put into it, the more you are likely to get out of it!
February 11th, 2008 at 10:04 am
As a Not-a-Blackstar (in my 50 words on Ecademy), I might be classed a cynic, but as Mike Segall says above - those that get it do, those that don’t ………
Ecademy is successful for people that want it to be successful. Some become Blackstars, some don’t. As a long standing Power Networker, I am
active on the platform most days of the week and enjoy the friendships that have been created, plus the support network; I learn from others all the time.
I am also one of those from the 2005 event, and if my diary fits will attend again in April.
Ecademy works, if you work Ecademy.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:17 am
This is a great debate and an excellent update Mike.
I do have to argue the point that you made though about Ecademy being about Thomas and I. It is not anymore, it may be about the culture that we inspired, but it is the members that now make Ecademy work.
Ecademy has tools, it is a machine, but it also has a heart and in my opinion, an increasing number of people need to feel a sense of belonging (not less) and an increasing number of people need to feel others are there to support and care for them.
Ecademy makes significant contribution to the emotional well-being of it’s members and as a result the financial outcomes are greater.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Hi I have been a part of Ecademy Blackstar community and have met some interesting people all over the world.
Thomas Power’s vision of building a truly Global Village is working quite well.
Heartiest congrats to Ecademy on completing the first decade I am positive there are more good times ahead.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Good update Mike and solid debate here.
Ecademy is a scalable machine with a heart. This makes it unique, intriguing and hard to fathom or pigeon hole even after 10 years. For some reason it won’t fit in a box much like society.
It is no longer about the Founders, but it was at one stage. If we all died tomorrow it would make no difference as Ecademy is shaped by its members now not the Founders. It’s beyond us and we know it and welcome it.
Traffic rose 53% in 2007 over 2006, source Google Analytics and happy to email it to anyone who wants to check it - thomas.power@ecademy.com.
Ecademy will keep on accelerating and differentiate itself from the machine only worlds of Linkedin, Facebook, Xing et al which in our view lack a heart. They are however good tools.
Social Media is not just about tools, it is about people and the relationships between those people, be they good, bad or indifferent.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:49 am
After three years of very active membership (BlackStar almost from the beginning) I’m currently on a self-imposed sabbatical from Ecademy to take some emotional distance from it while I “reconfigure” myself.
Ecademy is certainly not like LinkedIn and MySpace and Facebook and myriad others, which were built to be scalable. It’s too complicated, and clunky, and quirky and difficult to pull people in on a massive scale. That might be the despair of its investors, but it’s part of what makes Ecademy distinctive and worthwhile.
As you might expect, Ecademy reflects the character of its creators, especially Thomas Power. I know him personally, through Ecademy; he’s 90% (self-deluded) twit, 10% genius and 100% persistent. There are plenty of people who only see the 90% twit, and quite a few who only see the 10% genius.
The 90% twit contorts himself in all sorts of ways to convince himself and others that Ecademy is ahead of the curve and can stand alongside Facebook et al and is a big player. He really pisses off a lot of people as he does that. Meanwhile the 10% genius hangs on to some of the essential qualities that make Ecademy an outstanding niche market player.
Ecademy is a great platform thanks to/despite its founders and it will be around for a long time to come thanks to/despite their actions.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:07 am
“But what that means is that Ecademy is unlikely become a social network as big as LinkedIn or Xing (which run into millions of users) because it requires a pretty heavy subscription level to get real value (thus putting off a lot of the market),”
Hi Mike - This statement is not true at all. There are several grades of membership and the most widely used paid subscription is Power Networker. Under the PN membership there is a fantastic range of tools at your disposal. I used the PN membership for 9 months and fully utilized all these tools to promote my business. In that time I gained several new clients and have received several thousand unique hits to my website from adverts placed via Ecademy.
I upgraded to Black Star because I thought “Why not?” It has already paid for itself by the business generated and can only continue to generate future business. However, I would have quite happily stayed on Power Networker if there was no Black Star membership.
The subscription fee for Power Networker is LOW. No heavy investment required whatsoever. The main bulk of users on the site are Power Networkers and as such your statement “it requires a pretty heavy subscription level to get real value” is out and out wrong I’m afraid.
However - regardless of that, your update was reflective I thought and well put.
Matthew
February 11th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Well Thomas if you are offering information about the Ecademy how about a database analysis showing current active members i.e those that visit on say a daily, weekly and monthly basis.
The number of members who have not logged in for 3, 6 , 12+ months (i.e. by any rational stretch of imagination are no longer active members to network with).
The number of members who registered and then never visited again.
The number of members who have completed their profiles with a reasonable about of information that would allow you to network with them.
The number of paying members broken down by membership type over the last two years to allow visibility of increase/decrease of income.
A set of realistic accounts that give a detailed breakdown of the Ecademy’s trading situation, income sources, expenses etc. as opposed to the current practice of posting the absolute minimum accounts before extracting all the income out to Routecause Ltd.
I am sure that if you have a genuinely viable long term business model all of this and more should be available and that you would have no problem publishing just to prove all the doom mongers wrong.
I would also be interested in your business model and how you would define the strategy that will take you in a few years from 340,000 active members (sic) to the millions that you often quote.
I suspect that this will not be forthcoming because as you state frequently the whole thing is a black art and a complete mystery to you.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:16 am
In response to @Dan above asking for openness…
I checked my email, and yes, Thomas sent an email message on Sunday at 19:49 with the title “Come on BlackStars let’s here your voice too not just banned members” with the body of the message being just a link and his signature. (Sic - I assume he meant to say “let’s hear your voice”.
)
I assume the message went to all BlackStar members. So he did ask for comments yesterday, yes, and to a group of people could be said to be biased. However, they are far from a mindless collection of astroturfers - they are still spirited and independent, as you can see from Stuart Harris’ comment above!
One more thing for clarity - I asked Julian Bond, CTO at Ecademy, to clarify the 340,000 figure for Mike Butcher, who wrote this article, because Mike originally wrote something along the lines of “right now they claim 340,000 members visit each month” which struck me as a misquote, and indeed, it seems to have been that. The figure of 340,000 is for unique website visitors each month, not members visiting a month - and I see that Mike has edited the article to state that now.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Mike, are you seriously calling somebody out for pointing towards this discussion if it is of interest to them? Please. As if you never ever had done the same.
63 comments on this thread is saying something about active members on ecademy …
(btw you will find that I came through Thomas Power’s twitter post - and I am not even an ecademy member.) As much as I cannot find value in Linkedin, I can see that it works for some people. Like I see the above people talking about them finding value in what ecademy has to offer.
In my case I find a lot of value in investing the same kind of energy they obviously do in Xing, and I could write something similar about it (though I do only pay my 6 Euro membership).
My opinion? If you are in a business where a lot of partners are in such a network, you need to be there too. Not just have a user, but be there.
And then choose the one you like best and work from there.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:18 am
How interesting that critics don’t like having their views and opinions challenged by positive input and healthy debate! It’s so much easier to criticise than it is to get off one’s butt and build something from scratch. That takes sheer guts, vision, determination and nerves of steel.
I saw Ecademy’s independent statistical reports 18 months ago. With 25 years commercial experience, (eight running my own business) I couldn’t detect anything untoward. To me, arguing over figures is relatively unimportant. Men seem to get very hung up on measurements!!! The value is in the people and how you invest your own time. Your focus is key.
I joined Ecademy in 2002 but left when they introduced a monthly subscription. Bob Hayward (Timepower and OPC) is an Ecademy BlackStar and in the early days of Blue Click PR, he gave freely of his time, coaching me through a difficult patch. I rejoined Ecademy because of his example.
I nearly gave up because there is so much to learn about the system’s functionality. I skipped 2 levels of membership and bought into BlackStar to accelerate my networking. No regrets. It brings me solid PR contracts, ad hoc work, opportunities to pitch against the top IT PR Agency in the UK, business collaboration on a global scale and access to a wide range of talented people.
BlackStars support others and build their businesses. What you sow – you reap.
Referrals - People Do Business With Those They Trust
Blue Click PR’s speciality is helping small companies leverage their association with blue chip companies. We promoted NRG Business Networks/Lloyds TSB training workshops in London and got coverage in the Financial Times and The Mail on Sunday three times in six weeks. The events were full. NRG’s Kim Sharman gave me a testimonial at a Blackstar meeting and I gained my first overseas client as a direct result.
Making a Difference in this World!
You meet extraordinary people - people go to great lengths to help others. Bob Hayward ran six, 26-mile marathons on six consecutive days through Death Valley, USA in 30 degrees for a boy who had been badly burned. He made a difference to my business by helping me fix my sales process. In return I help him promote Swindon Foodbank fundraisers. He ran a half marathon pushing a shopping trolley I organised Olympic Marathon Runner, Matt O’Dowd for the photocall.
Ecademy member Kevin ‘Banana Man’ Allen feeds hundreds of thousands of children in Africa and needs help fundraising – I am mentoring Kevin about PR for free.
War With No Guns – My Passion Project
A New Zealand film director wanted a worldwide film distribution deal. Blue Click PR has a client who deals with Universal Pictures and I have connected Will Watson. Full story http://www.blueclickpr.com/news/news.php?story=379967
We’re raising £200,000 to complete the documentary about this New Zealand peace-keeping force who ended ten years of civil war on a Pacific island where 20% of the population died and fourteen peace agreements failed.
Brigadier Roger Mortlock (now an OBE) sent his peace-keepers into the lion’s den with guitars instead of guns! He understood matriarchal cultures and empowered women so they persuaded their warlord husbands to lay down their guns within 24 hours! He brokered their peace solution. http://www.swindonweb.com/office/?m=580&s=596&ss=0&c=
Through networking and PR, we have an invitation for Brigadier Roger Mortlock OBE to speak at the Ministry of Peace in London in April 2008 – to be attended by MPs. I need a film crew and am turning to trusted people on Ecademy for personal recommendations.
AND – I have instructed Will Watson to fill his Ecademy profile so people can find out more about why he gave up his day job a year ago to get this message onto the worldwide stage. He wants to save lives. Fundraising requires a Hearts & Minds approach – much like peace-keeping!
Is Ecademy good for business? - You get out what you put in.
Thomas Power goes for quantity. I wanted quality contacts but realise many have visited my profile and I have not capitalised on that as well as I could – so I aim for balance now.
I connect people and know deals have been done.
Rhona (Global Award-Winning PR) Jack
February 11th, 2008 at 11:18 am
I didn’t ‘get’ Ecademy for over a year, then finally found I needed to do some serious networking to develop my business and applied myself to making it work for me. Three years later I can honestly say that about 70% of my business has come to me via Ecademy, either members or referrals from members.
Yes, it’s overwhelming for new people with such a wealth of information and facilities (however, I still haven’t made Facebook work as effectively and get very frustrated by the silly elements of the social side of FB). Yes, it can be time consuming - but like any other business tool it only works if you use it properly.
Like others in this thread I have made some lifelong friends and have, finally, joined BlackStar - to find that gives me not only business connections that put money in the bank, but an invaluable source of support, advice and ideas. Plus I really enjoy being able to connect other people who need specific skills with those who have them - isn’t that what networking really is?
I totally agree with Penny Power’s vision of building relationships first - and also of understanding that Ecademy is not necessarily my market, but my route to market.
I’m on a few other networks but find them either silly and time consuming (Facebook) without much business advantage or polite and distant with little relationship building (LinkedIn), Ecademy works on many other levels - not least the ability to go and meet some of the people with whom I’ve connected online.
It’s a great community - if you are willing to give as well as take.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:37 am
I joined Ecademy in 2005, so not ten years for me but since joining I’ve
~ Generated 100 hits a week to each of my three websites consistently over the last 9 months which is more that my Google Adwords.
~ built an on-line network from 100+ to 2000+ across Linked In & Ecademy
~ Got my profile to the 1st page of Google when someone types in Internal Communication or Bob Hayward
~ Helped me with the research to bid worth over £2M
~ Enabled me to bring in 5 genuine top players in their field into the bid team, who put into the submission of a £2M bid
~ I’ve bought a variety of tools and support from others on Ecademy
~ Found TWO new business partners on Ecademy
~ I have given clients additional value because of Ecademy & BlackStar referrals
~ I have learnt to blog via Ecademy and blogger
~ I have learnt loads about myself and made a serious number of friends, many of whom have become face-to-face friends too.
I don’t agree with everyone on Ecademy, or in BlackStar, Ecademy is like any aspect of life; you get out what you put in and you meet all types of people good & not so good.
Enjoy ~ Bob x
February 11th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Dear all commenters. Ecademy has contacted me to clarify their numbers (members etc), which I have posted as “UPDATE II” on the post. Go check it out and feel free to comment again with your thoughts. (Mike Butcher, Editor)
@Nicole Simon - If you can be bothered to re-read my comments you will note that I later corrected my point that someone was creating a “trolling wave” on this post. However, it now turns out that Thomas Power DID INDEED email his BlackStar members on Sunday night to come and defend Ecademy here against its critics: “Come on BlackStars let’s here [sic] your voice too not just banned members” See David Pethericks’ comment above:
http://uk.techcrunch.com/2008/02/08/ecademy-the-ten-year-old-business-social-network/#comment-110630
We don’t normally have this many comments on the posts and I can only put it down to Power emailing his hard-core group of members. Case solved!
February 11th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I have been a professional networker for about 7years - both off- and online. In that time I have been a member of almost all online social and business networks, but still waiting to see (and feel) others achieve the same TRUE NETWORKING SPIRIT as Ecademy has!
After being a Power Networker on Ecademy for years, I became a BlackStar member last year - and already feel that its the best I have ever done (and invested in) for both my business and my personal networking life !!
How you can even think of comparing Ecademy with online networks like MySpace, Facebook etc. - is really a mystery to me; Ecademy is for business people, and networkers who have realized the true value of networking; giving & sharing (and I am not talking about vampire bites, love tests and other “waste of time gimmicks”).
Or comparing us with LinkedIn for example - where I have been a member longer than in Ecademy - and NEVER gotten any close relationships from !
Maybe they are just too big, more a listing of job offers - or simply do not have the “heart” as Ecademy does !?
No Ecademy is not the biggest - but who says we even want to be ?
As long as we have been started up with the True Heart of Networking, and nourish it along the way - we will continue to be the most profitable network around (not taking money here) - thus might even end up being the biggest, when it become known to the rest of the world, that its not quantity but quality that counts !!
February 11th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Yes! No! You are both right…
Some things work for some people and other things for other people…
I belong to many networks and to be successful you have to pick one that works and focus there checking the others from time to time (or by getting email notification). I have made friends, money and business contacts/contracts through BlackStar but, like every single thing on the planet…
There are good and bad things and there are good and bad people every where… I just find less of the bad on Ecademy and the platform works well!
Having owner involvement without delegation does slow the growth, true but it also keeps a much cleaner house… we all pride ourselves more in our own baby!
I wish Ecademy, Penny and Thomas (et al) all of the very best and have no problem throwing money at them for an organization with very good overall integrity!
J William (Bill) Moore
CEO
aSmilingWorld®
February 11th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Well I’m not a banned member of ecademy or even a member - but it says something that the assumption is all none glowing comments are from banned members.
It’s maybe not astroturfing but it’s certainly not spontaneous.
I think the level of commenting shows a degree of naivety on Powers part, it would have been much better for him to get a few well balanced comments from his users that created a debate. Rather than what has now become a joke.
I can’t imagine any of the comments made will make anyone rush to ecademy and sign up.
For me it shows how evangelism can turn to extremism.
In 10 years and with first mover advantage ecademy hasn’t achieved ownership of online business networking here in the UK and I think this thread is testament as to why.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Ecademy membership has paid for itself many thousands of times over. Blackstar membership has paid for itself over 100 times over. Does it work for everyone. No. For me, sometimes. The one constant is me. It’s always my fault if it does or doesn’t.
Why doesn’t it work for you or others? It’s always your fault.
You get back what you give. Give dross, get dross. Give value, get value. Post crud, develop a reputation for posting crud. Post great content, participate fully, contribute and invest in developing good trusted relationships up front, and make it easy for others to understand what you do and the value you bring …. and you get back good relationships from advocates who yell about your value from the rooftops to those who trust them and they keep your kids fed and clothed.
Ecademy offers a platform for great education. Most members don’t have that luxury as self-employed or business owners. They lack the support needed in the lonely, isolated postion most find themselves in. Ecademy can provide that too. That said, a great deal of utter tosh, pish and piffle is on there too. Exercise discernment and use good judgment. If in doubt ask others.
Occassional brilliance from management is peppered with acts of glorious self-sabotage. But don’t we all? If I look at all the good decisions I’ve made versus all the bad ones, I’m pretty sure the bad outweigh the good by a factor of 6 to 1 (or more). So yes, there are definite downsides and the Law of Attraction piffle and kerfuffle referred to above was a slight to even basic intelligence. It did the platform no end of harm, was handled as it was handled and now that is history.
The problem with Ecademy …. people take ownership of something that isn’t theirs!! The addictive nature, the close relationships, the heated debates, the shrill self-importance of a few turns an online business social networking platform into a battlefield of cliques, feuds and factions like you’d not believe as a dispassionate observer.
Ecademy is JUST another on-line networking platform. The people are the network. The relationships you form are where the value is….. for YOU. If your social skills stink offline, they’ll probably stink even more on-line (the voice you write in may not be the one it’s read in and this has caused more than one or two fallings out). Ecademists are a multiplicity of communities - membership levels, clubs, regional groups, interest groups, posters, non-posters, lurkers and dabblers, management and everyone else, new businesses, established businesses, scared people hoping for a helping hand, parasites preying on the few, august contributers with so much value to give and a selfless attitude towards giving it shames the rest of us into awe.
Givers gain is an oft maligned concept where people who gave up giving or were “ungiveable to” got up and left ranting about “selfish” and “useless” and “pointless”. Some left because their ire was rightfully pricked by some incredibly divisive debate and they became the collateral damage instead of the idiotic instigators. But the basic philosophy of Givers Gain as espoused by Ivan Misner and embodied in the likes of Fraser Hay proves the absolute value of a community based on shared values of contribution before compensation, outward directed care instead of inward directed, self-orientated hope of reward; a community based on support and trust. Lofty ideal or pragmatic, profitable truth, decide for yourselves. Givers gain is live and real for me and I can point to tangible value many hundreds of times each year I’ve been a member.
Yes a few of us have funded the Power’s lifestyle I’m sure. But aren’t they just running a business too. If someone complained that my fees went towards paying to feed, clothe and educate my kids or pay my mortgage I’d think them a bit of an ass frankly. If there were financial abuse and impropriety then that is a matter for the regulatory authorities and shareholders but as I understand it from this post and the subsequent threads that is not a moot point, is it? So render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. Let them have their subscriptions. That’s the rent for having your profile spidered by Google every half hour, your ads reaching millions and your right to self-publish assuaged …. and to have a lifetime of your inane rantings archived, stored and recalled on the clunky Drupal platform (what is Drupal for those of us who don’t care about the technology just that the car works and gets us from A-B safely?).
Anyone can make it work at £10+VAT a month. If you want to fork out more for Blackstar, that’s your choice. I did and paid upfront for life. I did the same for my wife when she was ready to take on more networking activities. Because the payback was complete and fast. But realise this. Ecademy is a disaster for those who don’t understand the dynamics and continuously abuse the culture. Ranters and politicoes, people trying to fool everyone all the time invariably come unstuck. The likes of Jim Wade who put the boot in when someone is blatantly lying or misinformed. Or Rory Murray who can’t sit back and see an injustice done even if it’s not his fight, and hundreds like them mean that anyone perpetuating untruths will be found out, faced up to and righted or they’ll leave, tail firmly between their legs.
The likes of Lesley Morrisey (above) who help people fit into the culture have their work cut out ensuring the guidance around best practice is adhered to. That is the crime. Someone working on rates that equate to voluntary service putting up with the attacks and hostility they endure. THOMAS, PENNY GLEN, pay the best practice team what they’re worth!!
Mike, thank for this post. It’s opened the debate up about the stats and the membership but the point needs to be made that WE MAKE OF IT WHAT WE WILL. Some get it, some don’t, there’s always someone waiting in the wings, so what, next!!
Marcus
February 11th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
This battle about statistics has raged on for years and will continue to do so. Allow me to presume, if you will, that in the grand scheme of things all most of us are REALLY concerned about is how Ecademy works or doesn’t work for us, individually and collectively. It means being willing to help other members as well as being open to offers of assistance from them. That’s the nature of networking if you want it to produce results that are worthwhile having.
Ecademy, in and of itself cannot deliver wealth of any kind (personal, business, friendship or emotional): It’s the people we deal with on the Ecademy platform that make that difference. What Ecademy has done is open up a world of people and opportunities we might otherwise not have had …and from experience that includes the hard business element as well as the more “touchy-feely” stuff. It’s like a big retail outlet with differing levels of membership, offering services, products, clubs and a publishing mechanism. Take it or leave it.
Ecademy management will do whatever it feels necessary to get its message across, as many who’ve been members for several years will testify (see Stuart Harris’ comment about 100% persistence). And yes, it annoys a lot of people a lot of the time. But then Thomas Power has long advocated the “quantity” approach to networking. It works for some, not for others. It’s not a universal truth - if it were, all most of us would ever do is network all day! But it’s HIS truth - read his book “Networking for Life” and he’ll explain his point of view on the matter.
The value is not in the statistics (correct or otherwise), it’s in our own experience, and how we put that experience to use, for ourselves and others.
Any of us can choose to ignore Thomas, we all have the same choice.
Personally, I’d like to think Ecademy will still be around in ten years, but as one individual member with no shareholding, it’s unlikely to be a decision I can influence.
February 11th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
I’ve been on Ecademy since February 2004, this site was the second business networking site that I joined. Since then I have been invited to join them all.
I’ve also worked with several other business organisations that have created a similar working model.
Ecademy has still managed to supersede all competitors. The web portal is brilliant; none of the other networking sites come close to this achievement.
I agree with Matthew Anderson, IT is a platform and how you use it is the key.
The potential for all businesses to succeed with Ecademy is so great that if it didn’t work for you, then the fault did lie with you.
In fact you don’t really have any excuse for failure.
Ecademy Management have a well constructed reference guide to help you with using Ecademy and your guide to business networking. This month there are some super new training web conferencing videos free of charge for all to view.
Ecademy Support Team – Ecademy Mentors- Ecademy Buddies, great people, always ready to assist and help.
Since upgrading to Blackstar in September 2007 – which I have to say was a great leap of faith for me too, I have made 700 new contacts. I’ve made more effort to go to local networking events; I’ve gone to the London Ecademy events and a couple of the Blackstar monthly meetings. Its working, I’ve met some very interesting people and had offers of employment and assignments to carry out. I’m making some good connections and building genuine friendships.
I’ve met Thomas and Penny Power, Glenn and Sophia Watkins and I’ve seen a passion for helping people in a genuine way, which I haven’t seen in other business clubs. I hold them all in high regard. I believe that the income and lifestyle that they now enjoy, they deserve to have it, they have worked for it.
Those of you who seem to enjoy posting all these negative detrimental comments, at least have the “balls” to put a link in so we can see who you are!!!
Warm regards
Stella Holman
February 11th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
With reference to David Petherick clearing up the misquote from “right now they claim 340,000 members visit each month” to “The figure of 340,000 is for unique website visitors each month, not members visiting a month” would be all well and good but in a recent press release from Thomas and Penny they state “Over 300,000 people visit the website each month source: Google Analytics.” Which to me is exactly the same vague misquote that can be defended after the event when their bluff is called.
Mike has managed to clear up some figures and whittled it down to about 7,500 paying which probably means active as well which of course is a very different value proposition you are buying into compared with 300,000 or 1.9 million.
I know many people get on extremely well with the Ecademy and make money/friends/contacts etc. from it but that of course is a different matter from providing inaccurate membership statistics in press releases.
If the release had said “After 10 years of hard work we have a subscription basis of 7,500 people and occasional visitors of 190,000 world wide” the impact may well have been somewhat lessened.
If anyone comes back an tells me the non-paying members are active then they will need to explain how considering the severely limited access given to the grey stars.
February 11th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
“Judging by the referer logs, inside Ecademy somewhere, someone has asked members to start filling up this blog post with supportive comments. ”
He does it all the time. If anyone on the front page starts a negative blog about Blackstars, he sends out his plea for support.
Personally I don’t think Blackstar is worth the money, but then, I got it cheap but would certainly not recommend it to anyone.
February 11th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
“Personally I don’t think Blackstar is worth the money, but then, I got it cheap but would certainly not recommend it to anyone.” - If you don’t think it’s worth it, then why hang around in BlackStar, if indeed you are a BlackStar? Besides which, if you received it as a gift or as a concession (as you imply you have) and then disses it anonymously, your opinion is about as worthless as your name.
“He does it all the time. If anyone on the front page starts a negative blog about Blackstars, he sends out his plea for support.” - Agreed completely. Big corporates such as Microsoft and KPMG who “don’t get it” are cool enough to let criticism stand - they understand that they can’t control what people say about them, and that they look like dorks if they do try.
February 11th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Mike Butcher is a journalist - correct ?? Enough said then - surely !!
Well done Mike - you’ve found a subject and a company that has vociferous supporters and haters.
No point in blogging about something that gets no comments eh!
Lifestyle business ??? Hmmm!! I guess there are many definitions of what that is ( see for example http://www.37signals.com/svn/archives2/gag_me_with_a_lifestyle_business.php ) .
There is that rather basic one about lifestyle businesses being about spending all the company profits on Porsches, Houses etc and ” real businesses ” being one’s with an ” exit route ” ie trade sale,float etc.
As to which one is ” right ” - that’s another matter.
From what I can see the Board of Ecademy has worked very hard to build up a business in ( what was ) a completely new area in a very challenging period ( boom to bust ).
Well done to them for achieving what they have. ( If you have never done that yourself then you don’t really know what it is like ).
It is fair to say that ( with conventional wisdom ) achieving a successful exit will require scalability and a succession plan.
Some people say that the technical platform and the dependence on Thomas and Penny are a limiting factor. Another view is that the simplicity of this platform and the ” human element ” are it’s strength.
We members of Ecademy will work to prove that the latter is the case.
We will not concern ourselves with ” negative waves “.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
It works for me. And to agree with Marcus above, if it didn’t, it would be totally my fault.
So maybe that should be *I* make it work for me.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
The creator of Ecademy Blackstar and Thomas Power’s business partner is Roger Hamilton of XL Results Foundation.
Roger Hamilton and XL Results Foundation pte ltd is facing allegations in a court of law in Singapore it is operating an elaborate pyramid scheme duping victims world wide.
Ecademy Blackstar is replicated on the XL Results Foundation life membership program.
http://www.complaintsboard.com/?search=XL+Results+Foundation
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4287069a6442.html
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2007/05/30/1180205312469.html
February 12th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
I think much aof what comews from the Ecademy is summed up by Thomas where he is selling ‘white label’ versions of the Ecademy, and i quote…..
“Our USP: We’re 10 year olds.”
http://www.ecademy.com/module.php?mod=list&lid=79107
February 13th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Interesting comment “John”… I think that this link would be better explanation of the court case involving XL and Roger.
http://xlresultsfoundationlegalfile.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/xl-results-foudation-pte-ltd-vs-linda-ruck/
This gives a detailed outline the claim involving an ex-employee of XL and her unfounded claims against XL (that just happen to be the exact same claims made anonymously on any blog site that someone